Losers' corner for the semi-deaf |
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回覆 (48): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Well, that’s why I try to setup my active Xover to match as closely as possible to the original passive Xover!  
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This can be just part of the solution. Even if we use the same crossover frequency, we will still be haunted by the different sensitivity of the drivers and need to adjust the volume/gain of each way to match. This is indeed the main reason for tone messing up..... ;-)
BenYC
09-06-04
00:28:40
回覆 (47): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
>They probably all got very greedy and tried to perfect the sound of every cd as they now have the "control". Ultimately, owner keep tuning and tuning.<  
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Well, that’s why I try to setup my active Xover to match as closely as possible to the original passive Xover!  
 
 
thekong
09-06-03
13:08:19
回覆 (46): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Nope. The morale of this story should be "When a person is bored and have nothing better to do, he/she likes to dig hole to jump in.". Best is to find things to keep one busy.  
 
Don't think I did not expect this to happen. ;-)
BenYC
09-06-03
12:04:32
回覆 (45): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
the morale of the story is 'don't think that we are smarter than those who do these for a living'. most of us are only kids with firearms^-^
drwkng
09-06-03
11:44:50
回覆 (44): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
A bit of sharing on active crossover.  
 
I think I now know why lots of people messed up in using it. They probably all got very greedy and tried to perfect the sound of every cd as they now have the "control". Ultimately, owner keep tuning and tuning. As time goes by, sound too controllable but tonal balance all off to please ears for certain specific cds. Sooner or later, Haken Lee sounds like Alan Tam and Faye Wong sounds like me....  
 
The key for now - Listen to more cds and don't go for perfection. Voice recognise-able is already an achievement....  
 
Aim low, shoot low....
BenYC
09-06-03
11:28:19
回覆 (43): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
System up and running and lots of worms came out.  
 
My preamp is so noisy that it has become irritating... I guess it is the old tubes and old gears. Shoot... nothing I can do but to live with it....  
 
One thing confirmed - Speaker cables' length of each way cannot be too off.  
 
With this active thing going on, even without the eq, the variables are all interwined together. Change one know slightly and all elses need to be re-adjusted.  
 
Jeez, I like this new toy. Can keep "Gau-ing" ... very "dei wan".  
 
BenYC
09-05-22
10:28:55
回覆 (42): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Main system out and nothing to do. Secondary system has nothing to "gau".... so I try to do my maintenance. Checked all main components to make sure there is no DC problem. Rewiring all to make things look more neat.  
 
Usually, this kind of maintenance will result in one thing - don't know which one, but one or more gear will break down.  
 
Fingers crossed and waiting for main to sound again...
BenYC
09-05-19
20:31:02
回覆 (41): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Hi KH,  
 
Thanks for the tip. This crossover thing is indeed funny. I should be very pissed but heck... the whole thing becomes kind of amusing.  
 
Agree giving up active is probably a matter of time.  
 
Now, I am actually listening to Gould's Bach Partita 6. At the end of the day, it is the music that matters. (Grape is sour.... )  
 
Cheers.  
 
 
BenYC
09-05-16
00:03:51
回覆 (40): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
Fate has it that this cross over is not for you. If you considered this a toy , then dump it and buy another. If you considered this is one of the journey to hi-end,then forget it, take limage 's advice and get something simple.  
Anyway your system is always musical no matter what you add to or subtract from it, it sound more or less the same, and forget about time or phase alignment.  
Just enjoy the music, esp. Glen Gould, which sound nice in your system.
kh33
09-05-15
23:46:41
回覆 (40): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
 
Keep your fingers cross my friend...
tenfingers
09-05-15
23:02:13
回覆 (39): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Apparently no more power like last time. Yet, if there is a blowing of transformers 2 times in a row, something else inside is causing it.  
 
Tough luck but luckily I am used to this kind of crap and have a backup system.
BenYC
09-05-15
23:00:57
回覆 (38): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
 
How come?
tenfingers
09-05-15
22:51:36
回覆 (37): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Friends,  
 
You are not going to believe it. The crossover broke again....
BenYC
09-05-15
22:49:37
回覆 (36): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Hi Limage,  
 
Thanks for the great info. I am floored by your knowledge as usual. I will try to digest and keep it in mind.  
 
Actually, I have no intention to go active until recently. I am fancying an old speaker (Jensen ultraflex+imperial) and curiousity can kill. Further research made me conclude that getting the original crossover from that time is impossible. The only way "feasible" is to go active and now using my current setup as a test/learning ground.  
 
This speaker project is something I know will doomed but wanna do for the sake of doing. Don't know how to explain but friends here should know I do stupid things like this very often... way too often.  
 
As always, I need all the help and guidance I can get.  
 
Thanks again.  
 
Ben
BenYC
09-05-15
15:31:39
回覆 (35): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
"Time align drivers" does not mean that the drivers be physically on the same spot, otherwise life would be quite easy as long as you have all your drivers at equal distances from your ear.  
 
When we have a multi-driver speaker system, it usually means we have different drivers for different frequency range. Take the example of the simpler two way system, i.e. a woofer and a tweeter, splitting their work at the mid-range, say 400 Hz. Whatever above 400 Hz will be produced by the tweeter and below 400, the woofer takes control. To do this we need a cross-over to split the frequency before distributing the power into the corresponding drivers. Here comes the problem.  
 
For traditional cross-over designs, capacitors and coils are widely used to split the frequency. These components, while filtering the frequencies, also introduce time shifts. To complicate the matter, these time shifts are also frequency dependent, which means they have different amount of time shifts at different frequencies.  
 
What are the effects then? If the tweeter and the woofer are physically placed at equal distances from your ear, sound waves from the woofer and those from the tweeter will, because of the time shift, be coming to your ear at different times. One will be slower than the other by split second. You will then be hearing a muddled sound with poor transients, or more commonly, the tweeter sound will be standing out to attract you most of the time.  
 
Speaker manufacturers use instruments to measure this time shift and thereafter have them corrected by having the drivers at different distances from the possible listening position. In general this is call time alignment.  
 
For the average consumer who does not have the necessary instruments, he can only use his own ears to at least align the attack time while leaving alone the decay time which is a separate subject anyway. That is the best compromise I can think of. The pre-requisites, however, are that the drivers have to be physically movable and that you have a pair of fairly good ears.  
 
The caveat: stick with the stock speaker and keep the system as simple as you can. Forget about DIY speakering if all you want is listening to music in the proper way.  
 
limage
09-05-15
15:10:51
回覆 (34): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Time for a serious question.  
 
I heard about people trying to time align drivers. Is misalignment going to be a big problem? If say drivers are 2-3 feet apart, will the distortion be apparent? How is different length in in speaker cable for different way?  
 
I am now in the middle of setting up my loudspeaker. Now debating if I should fix the tweeter and the mid into one cabinet. Plus, I heard all kinds of myth in things need to be perfect. Yet, absolute perfection seems impossible.  
 
 
Plus, if time align is crucial, it seems that most speakers will fail. Even most so call time-aligned design, the woofer, mid, high will not be at the same spot. Thus, time-aligned setup will only happen to one specific listening position. Too close to speaker, the woofer will be further away, vice versa.  
 
How far can we be off until our ears start complaining?  
 
Any sharing on this?
BenYC
09-05-15
12:39:35
回覆 (33): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
You guys are funny.  
 
By the way, I only needed two of those. I ended up with 4 because a seller bundle them up with the mid-range. Take it or leave....  
 
With my kind of fingers, spare is usually a good idea.  
 
(I can't remember how many times I plug 110v stuff into 220v main. Dropping all kinds of fragile stuff or banging my head to wall.)
BenYC
09-05-15
12:31:18
回覆 (32): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
 
 
If these four drive you crazy, relax with this one from Kris  
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As a distinguished visual artist, Kris is a little too illustrative in this instance. With a little imagination, Ben's picture is much more erotic with 4 big txts from the big black whores. That drives me crazy!  
 
 
 
cpsjj
09-05-15
12:14:46
回覆 (31): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Now that I have no treble, better switch my song playlist a bit. :)  
 
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWXRHGyPLKY
BenYC
09-05-15
12:03:00
回覆 (30): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Shoot... my mind already gone crazy, now my nose is bleeding.....  
 
No wonder you play golf so much. Need a caddy or a water boy?
BenYC
09-05-15
11:59:49
回覆 (29): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
From Kris.
jcml
09-05-15
11:48:29
回覆 (28): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
If these four drive you crazy, relax with this one from Kris.
http://www.tshot.it/wp-galleryo/sophie-sandolo-calendario/sophie_sandolo.jpeg
jcml
09-05-15
11:47:05
回覆 (27): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
With my kind of luck... probably whatever I bring home will not sound....  
 
How can I not drive myself crazy? Or, perhaps I am crazy already.
BenYC
09-05-15
11:34:58
回覆 (26): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
I always think the owner of the system is usually the one that cannot hear or understand it. Confirmed my theory again.  
 
Last nite, being home alone with kids, I asked a friend to come over to help me out. After listening a while, he told me sound was a bit strange and does not sound real/lively. Further discussion, he reminded me that my system can only go up to about 12-13k Hz. I think this is a reason I keep thinking it is blur.  
 
Lessons learnt -  
 
1. Don't put myself in a hole trying to fix things without knowing what to fix. Better step out once in a while to see the big picture.  
 
2. My hearing is not further degrading but my brain is.  
 
I will bring home another tweeter tonite. Let's see how my luck/hearing goes.
BenYC
09-05-15
11:25:35
回覆 (25): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Crossover up and running last nite. Sort of pass Jackie Cheung test marginally. 3 major problems to solve -  
 
1. Sound a bit blur.  
2. One of the amp have major hum, probably from tube noise + ground loop  
3. Trash can too small to fit  
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obs0EHZ1CX8
BenYC
09-05-14
11:49:31
回覆 (24): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
How does Tenfingers know that all you need is a transformer?  
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Scary.... @[email protected]"
BenYC
09-05-13
23:41:40
回覆 (23): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
 
Hifi genius?  
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I am not a hifi genius, just an old customer of a music shop full of 'senior musicians' .
tenfingers
09-05-13
23:16:59
回覆 (22): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
 
 
You need a transformer.  
 
They fixed it in 10 minutes with a new transformer.  
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How does Tenfingers know that all you need is a transformer?  
 
Hifi genius?  
 
 
 
cpsjj
09-05-13
23:03:17
回覆 (22): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
 
 
good thing is - you may stop those self-destructive acts.....  
 
bad thing is - those freaks here love watching live performance....
tenfingers
09-05-13
23:02:38
回覆 (21): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Crossover sega to continue -  
 
The shitty and cheap crossover took me 45 days to order, 2 days to break.  
 
Today I talked to the sole agent and finally catch some luck. I told them I don't wanna new replacement nor another long wait. If can fix, just do it quick and I will be a happy guy again. The guy explained to me the constraint in what they can do like spare parts maybe out of stock, bla bla bla and asked me to send the crossover to them to try to fix if this was what I really wanted.  
 
They fixed it in 10 minutes with a new transformer.  
 
Good part - I can fiddle with it again.  
Bad part - The sound sucks.....  
 
Today is a good or bad day.... shoot, I don't know.  
 
 
BenYC
09-05-13
22:47:31
回覆 (20): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Were you sad at that time ( one year ago?)  
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Ever since I started being played by hifi, it is hard not to be sad....or confused. Still is.....  
 
BenYC
09-05-13
22:40:54
回覆 (19): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
A bit of finding sharing - Granados. I am floored by this pianist  
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Were you sad at that time ( one year ago?)
tenfingers
09-05-13
22:28:24
回覆 (18): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
 
You need a transformer.
tenfingers
09-05-13
18:33:17
回覆 (17): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Well, there are things that are doomed but yet just the heck of doing it is tempting.  
 
I cannot remember how many times I fiddled with some new hifi changes and ended up disliking the result and went back to original setting.  
 
Hifi is to kill time and I guess it is the process that really counts.  
 
Yet, I greatly appreciate Limage's sincere advice. He has been there and did it. He knew the answer and wanna share. Yet, not been there and not failing, it will always be like something is missing. ;-)  
 
No gut no glory. No gut no stupidity.  
BenYC
09-05-13
11:02:03
回覆 (17): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
Oh yes, I forgot your Apogee is the real bastard!  
 
limage
09-05-13
11:00:10
回覆 (16): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
>pls prove others here wrong by making the 3-way sings heavenly<  
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Ben,  
 
It is more likely that I'll prove them right :-)  
 
 
Limage,  
 
I know I probably should not continue to go down that path. However, there is no turning back now.  
 
The new mid/treble ribbon on my Apogee is aluminium foil only (much like the ribbon tweeter on the Maggies), instead of the Mylar backed ribbon in the stock speaker. This foil only ribbon, being lighter, is quicker and has better extension and higher efficiency. However, it also has lower impedance. All these changes made the original crossover non-applicable. So, full active is the only way to go now :-(  
 
 
 
thekong
09-05-13
10:47:26
回覆 (15): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
 
 
I am already preparing to go 3 ways  
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Banish the idea, dear Kong, or you probably end up in the middle of nowhere.  
 
One worthwhile venture is to mate the Apogee with T-4 bass panels through active bi-amping, leaving the Apogee driven in full range mode. This is far easier to get reasonably good results.  
 
When this configuration is overwhelmingly successful, then you may consider splitting the frequency with the Apogee drivers.  
 
Of course I had no experience at all with a set up like yours, yet my 25 year bi-amping pilgrimage does bring me some insight into the heresy one may easily fall into.  
 
limage
09-05-13
10:04:33
回覆 (14): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
A bit of finding sharing - Granados. I am floored by this pianist.  
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyrYv3i_zfU
BenYC
09-05-13
09:38:31
回覆 (13): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
Thekong,  
 
May the Force be with you. And, pls prove others here wrong by making the 3-way sings heavenly.  
 
Cheers.  
BenYC
09-05-13
09:31:08
回覆 (12): Losers' corner for the semi-deaf
' Why is there a hole.... ? Damn it....'  
 
You meant 'Why is there a(n) (ass)hole......?.  
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No, you got it wrong this time. There is no asshole in the photo.  
 
The asshole was holding the camera.
BenYC
09-05-13
09:28:28
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