古典音樂版本比拼擂台 |
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回覆 (365): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Hope you guys can view this. I think is a Mozart Piano Concerto!  
 
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Is it the Mozart K466, the second movement, Romanz  
kh33
11-09-21
17:45:19
回覆 (364): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
How about Callas and her Mono Tosca?  
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Though Callas made many mono recordings it is the stereo ones that I like best. There is a stereo version of Tosca with Tito Gobbi,Carlos Bergonzi, directed by George Petre. Great sound and great performance ,though not as famous as her 1953 mono with Stefano and Sebata.  
Same for Norrna, I like her stereo version made in 1960. Her 'Casta Diva',IMO, has no equal. Only has the blue Angel copy, can't afford the blue/silver original.  
It is for Callas that I strive to improve my sound reproduction system and I find that I can appreciate her voice more in analog format using tube amplication, adding a supertweeter would be icing on the cake.  
kh33
11-09-21
17:40:48
回覆 (364): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Hope you guys can view this. I think is a Mozart Piano Concerto!  
 
bobui
11-09-21
16:29:38
回覆 (363): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
How about Callas and her Mono Tosca?  
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Hi CKM, I talk a lot recently at 1PR amn please do not hestaite to through stone at me and scream if i blow water too much and mess up the party.  
 
Oh, yes, Tosca, that made Callas famous from then on. Actually, you are 100% correct. If not listen to mono for some recordings, we will miss the fun! My much loved Callas is the "Norma". The 60"s recorded Columbia Stereo version. I spent my whole month pay cheque for a silver/blue box set on bay watch a while ago.  
 
Thank you for including me here and the sharing.
bobui
11-09-21
12:28:20
回覆 (363): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Limage,  
 
I have not been listen to Mahler for a long time already, but nice to meet you again.  
CKM
11-09-21
12:19:53
回覆 (362): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
bobui,  
 
Nice to meet you, probably the first time.  
 
Concerning Mono/Stereo, I will probably miss the great work by Heifetz if I listen to stereo only, many of them are great perfromance that have not been superseded, his mono Tchaikovsky violin concerto on RCA in early 50s is one of them.  
 
Can we forget Lipatti and his dancing performance of Chopin's Waltz, sorry I can't.  
 
How about Callas and her Mono Tosca?  
 
I recently fall in love with Fournier/Backhaus Brahms Cello sonatas, but unfortunately, they are in MONO.
CKM
11-09-21
12:16:30
回覆 (362): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
Wow, I've never imagined I could have wakened the sleeping knight !!!  
 
^____^  
 
CKM, I cannot forget how much I have been inspired by your articles on Mahler's Symphonies.  
 
 
limage
11-09-21
12:14:33
回覆 (361): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Right cpsjj,  
 
I have very little experience on Sibelius, but a research would be interesting, I think we will know more about Sibelius from research and version comparison.  
 
Back in 2009, the greatest obstacles in version comparison is that all particpant have different version on hand, but they are unable to listen to other version immediately, as some good or great version may go out of print or difficult to obtain in Hong Kong. Thank to teh recent advancement in technology, I think we can download any version paid or even free of charge. A search in yahoo is all you have to do.  
 
If you still have problem, find it on Amazon or Verycd.com.  
 
Let me do some ground work and hope we can understand more about Sibelius of classical music in general through discussion.  
 
CKM
11-09-21
12:07:12
回覆 (359): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
orchestral works, mono is definitely out of my consideration  
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For orchestral, definitely me too. Here is what I think. A recording engineer deliberately mix and match all the recorded channels (probably recorded with more than two mics) into the mixer to recreate the hall effect for our two channels home audio system. So that the Violins will sound louder on the left speaker to make it sound like the Voilins were positioned on the left hand side of the orchestra. The drums spread out wider and further back with a blur image between the speakers. Something like that, OK? And if that is ture, why on earth we deliverately listen to a playback in mono. All the engineering work gone to the trash and no more the hall effect!  
 
The only time that is worth bringing out the mono for playback is if a recording was under just a single mic and no further mix and match in the studio. Then you still need to playback with one speaker, not two. That would be true mono, right!
bobui
11-09-21
12:06:47
回覆 (360): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
Welcome back CKM.  
 
What do you think shall be the next 擂台比拼?  
 
Recently I've been comparing 8 different versions of Sibelius Sym 2.  
 
 
 
 
cpsjj
11-09-21
11:51:57
回覆 (359): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Hi all friends from Peking road,  
 
After two years of hibernating, I wake up not until today, hopefully it is not too late.  
 
Thank to my little boy, who have to go to sleep early, not much `loud' music can be played until recently, but music never leave me.  
 
A sincere thank you for kh33 and limage for maintain this great site and this thread and I hope I can write more in near future.
CKM
11-09-21
11:47:06
回覆 (358): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
------but when it comes to  
orchestral works, mono is definitely out of my consideration. -----------  
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Agreed. That is why I never fell for the Furtwangler's Beethoven ninth despite its musical achievement.  
 
 
kh33
11-09-21
11:17:07
回覆 (357): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
mono is definitely out of my consideration.  
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May be you should start considering 三頭六臂 after the dust settled on the Rock!
icefox
11-09-21
10:37:34
回覆 (356): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
A note on early or historic recordings:  
 
Vocals in mono can be real good, in fact often preferred over early psudo-stereo presentations; but when it comes to  
orchestral works, mono is definitely out of my consideration.  
 
 
limage
11-09-21
10:21:17
回覆 (355): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Of course, there is also a reissue of Leonid Kogan, Constantin Silverstri with Vienna and I invite you friends in Oct to hear this Kogan and Menuhin on my set up under the same conductor and Orchestra. We can get to know each other better that way!
bobui
11-09-20
15:02:34
回覆 (354): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Which one is your preferred version?  
 
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This one
bobui
11-09-20
14:50:42
回覆 (353): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
....the 2009 long list doesnt have the one I am most interested,Yehudi Menuhin  
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They were auditioned, but not included in the list for scoring.  
 
Which one is your preferred version?  
 
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cpsjj
11-09-20
14:41:56
回覆 (352): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
the 2009 long list  
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Ah, my typo again. I was referring to the 2010 list below, 10-01-03 limage 11:51:09
bobui
11-09-20
14:33:06
回覆 (351): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
here are audiophiles as much as music lovers.  
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Yes, you right! All down to individual choice. By the way, the 2009 long list doesnt have the one I am most interested,Yehudi Menuhin. And if it ever happen that a Beethoven Violin Concerto shootout will be conducted on the visit to my den in October, I want to suggest that each of the visitor to name or bring a most preferred version/interpretation. LP only!  
 
We then play each version for let say roughly 10 to 15 minutes at dinner time, all details hidden with only numbers give out. By the time we finished our dinner. Name the number each of us prefer most and share with comments. And the person who actually get to indentify the one most preferred will get a small prize. A record/LP.  
 
bobui
11-09-20
14:18:42
回覆 (350): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
Yes, but don't forget members here are audiophiles as much as music lovers. Whether the music or sonic effects should come first is of course an individual choice. I, for one, would give equal weight on both.  
 
limage
11-09-20
12:29:43
回覆 (349): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Here is the roundup by CKM back in 2009 on Beethoven's Emperor.  
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You guys were so far ahead! So many interpretations! Must be fun!  
 
The interesting thing is that the sonic and music points seems to go hand in hand with each other in the 2009 shootout. Emmmmmmmm!  
 
bobui
11-09-20
12:17:08
回覆 (348): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
bobui,  
 
Here is the roundup by CKM back in 2009 on Beethoven's Emperor.  
 
Votes were cast by quite a few classical fans who, for one reason or another, have now withdrawn into the backseat. I have the sinister feeling that Classical Music is likely to fade into insignificance in the not-too-distant future, a fate that its recording companies have already faced.  
 
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看來大家已對貝多芬鋼琴第五号協奏曲各版本有一定的了解,但擂台是殘酷的,終極版本只有一個,所以我建議來個終極表决。表决以五分為滿分,評分標準為:  
1分:此版本不可取  
2分:此版本缺點甚多但仍有可取突出之處  
3分:整體表現出色  
4分:整體表現出色之餘有突出的見解或特色  
5分:各方面表現完美,充滿特色,難以超越  
 
並同時為錄音質素作評分,分數和演繹分開計算:  
1分:比收音機還差  
2分:和收音機相約  
3分:基本平衡  
4分:動態出色,音色自然  
5分:發燒天碟,試機精品  
所有參與者都可就手頭上各版本投票一次,該版本各人分數總和為該版本分數(越多人投票與每票得分高的版本就是最佳版本):  
 
Beethoven piano concerto no.5 current result:  
 
latest result:  
 
Kempff/Leitner--------------------------------------26 points (music)/ 23 point (sonic)  
Perahia/Haitink -----------------------------------26 points (music)/ 22 point (sonic)  
Arrau/Davis(1980)---------------------------------21 points (music)/ 19 point(sonic)  
Rubinstein/Barenboim---------------------------14 points (music)/ 17 point (sonic)  
Gilels/Szell------------------------------------------14points (music) / 11 points (sonic)  
Pollini/Bohm( 1979)------------------------------14 poinst (music)/ 11 point(sonic) (DVD)  
Kovacevich/Davis (1969)------------------------13 points ( music)/ 15 point(sonic)  
Michelangeli/Giulini ( 1979)--------------------10points (music)/ 10 point(sonic)  
Arrau/Haitink (1964)-------------------------------9 points (music)/ 9 point(sonic)  
Zimerman/Bernstein------------------------------ 9points (music) / 8 points (sonic)  
Gulda/Stein-------------------------------------------8 points (music) / 8 points (sonic)  
Casadesus/Rosbaud----------------------------.-8 points (music) /6 points (sonic)  
Horowitz / Reiner.----------------------------------8 points (music) / 5 point (sonic)  
Aimard/Harnoncourt-------------------------------7 points (Music)/ 8 point(sonic)  
Ashkennazy/Solti-----------------------------------7 points (music)/ 8 points (sonic)  
Ashkennazy/Mehta-------------------------------- 5 points (music)/ 8 points (sonic)  
Bachauer / Skrowaczewski--------------------5points (music) / 5 points (sonic)  
Fischer / Furtwangler----------------------------.5points (music) / 3points (sonic)  
Walter Gieseking/Alceo Galliera-------------5points (music)/3 points (sonic)  
Backhaus/Schmidt-Isserstedt-----------------5 points (music)/4 points (sonic)  
Kissin/ Levine----------------------------------------4 points (music) /4 points (sonic)  
Alica de Larrocha / Metha ----------------------4 points (music) / 4 point (sonic)  
Katchen / Piero Gamba ------------------------4 points ( music)/ 4 point(sonic)  
Gilels/Leopold Ludwig ---------------------------4 points (music)/ 3 point (sonic)  
Kempff/Van Kempen (1953) --------------------4 points (music) / 3 points sonic)  
Gieseking / Rother----------------------------------4 points (music)/ 3 point (sonic)  
Curzon/Han Knapplertsbuscn-------------------4 points (music) / 3 points (sonic)  
Michelangeli / Celibidache-----------------------4 points(music)/ 4point (sonic)  
Gulda/Szell---------------------------------------------2 point (music)/ 1 point(sonic)  
 
 
limage
11-09-20
11:57:35
回覆 (347): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
For Beethoven symphony 6 ,of course Walter's version is my reference, but I also like that by Klemperer/Philharmonia and Szell/Cleveland. Klemperer for his genlte flowing colourful account and Szell for his tight discipline and highly charged rendition.  
kh33
11-01-11
18:58:15
回覆 (346): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Got it at last!  
 
You are damn right, the Bruno Walter recording is truly legendary, challenged only by the EMI in pure sonic terms.  
 
Nature is not just a vast idyllic calm. It is in fact teeming with life if you care to get a little closer.  
 
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EMI under the hands of the Christophers:  
 
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limage
11-01-09
16:19:11
回覆 (345): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
Since you have bought the Living Stereo 60 CD collection, then you should have this Charles Munch reading; good recording and excellent wind solo.  
 
 
cpsjj
11-01-09
14:34:51
回覆 (344): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
I should have the Bruno Walter reading but it is nowhere to be found now. The other one I have is RCA’s CSO/Reiner in dynagroove which is not worth exploring in sonic terms.  
 
limage
11-01-09
14:21:09
回覆 (343): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
but none from Furtwängler, the highly acclaimed authority elected by classical gurus here on PR1.  
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Is Furtwangler's 6 so highly recommended? I should have all of his recordings. Wanna check it out?  
 
If recording quality is not an issue, Carlos Kleiber's cassette version should worth listening. It is at the other end of Walter in terms of speed but it is so claimed that Kleiber sticks to Beethoven's prescribed temo, breezily enjoyable.  
 
cpsjj
11-01-09
13:44:18
回覆 (342): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
You mean you don't even have the legendary Bruno Walter recording ?  
 
 
cpsjj
11-01-09
13:34:20
回覆 (341): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Beethoven’s Six needs little introduction.  
 
This is going to be my picnic on this beautiful Sunday. I have only 4 LPs dating from early 60 to late 70’s, but none from Furtwängler, the highly acclaimed authority elected by classical gurus here on PR1.  
 
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and a box set by DG recorded in 1977  
 
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The last addition was a gift from cpsjj, a thoroughly enjoyable CD:  
 
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limage
11-01-09
11:50:21
回覆 (340): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Piano Arrangement of Violin Concerto, Op. 61a  
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/w/79110/Ludwig-van-Beethoven-Piano-Concerto-in-D-major-arranged-by-the-composer-after-the-Violin-Concerto-Op-61a
Gingers
10-01-13
10:56:10
回覆 (339): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
BEETHOVEN VIOLIN CONCERTO, op. 61  
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If you hate that there are only five Beethoven's piano concertos, why not take a try to the piano version of this materpiece.  
I have two versions and one clarinet version.
Gingers
10-01-13
10:47:08
回覆 (340): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
KH,  
 
Total agree, I found Chan Sa's performance exceptional on that night, she exhibit her extraordinary ability to make the piano sing, yet every note sound poetic and fluent.  
 
Her live concert would be high on my list.  
 
Still working on Beethoven's violin concerto recently, collected and listened to versions by Kogan/Silverti, Mullova/Gardiner, Hahn/Zinman, Mutter/Karajan, Ferras/Karajan, Shumsky/Davis, Szeryng/Haitink, hope I can choose oneafter repeated listening.
CKM
10-01-13
10:32:16
回覆 (339): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Met CKM last Sat at the Chen Sa's recital concert.  
A wonderful evening with Chen giving a brillant performance of Beethoven,Rachmaninov, Chopin and Ravel works. Compared to her previous visits she is now more mature and confident. She may not be considered as beautiful but there is an elegant charm in her demeanor that is simply beguiling. Her piano playing is just a joy to watch There is no excessive or exaggerated body movements and facial expression. Her arms are strong yet her hands and fingers are so soft, supple and delicate.  
Though her Beethoven lacks the power and the majesty of those giants, she made it up with finnese and poetic elements, and her phrasing is hard to fault.  
During the second half she played the Rach and Chopin pieces without any interruption. There was no doubt on her technique but I feel she was a bit hurried on some moments. The best part was the encore piece, Chopin Nocturne in B flat major, where she beautiful brought out the poetic and nostalgic mood of this work, a playing that bear a strong resemblance to that by Rubinstein.
kh33
10-01-12
12:52:28
回覆 (338): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
BEETHOVEN VIOLIN CONCERTO, op. 61  
 
 
Chung / Vienna Phil / Kondrashin  
3/5 limage  
 
 
Chung / Concertgebouw / Tennstedt  
 
 
Francescatti / Columbia Sym Orch / Walter  
4.5/5 BenYC  
 
 
Grumiaux / Concertgebouw / Colin Davis  
4/5 limage  
 
 
Heifetz / Boston Sym / Munch  
5/4 limage  
5/4.5 BenYC  
 
 
Hirshhorn / Orchestre National de Belgique / Zollman  
 
 
Kogan / Moscow Phil Sym Orch / Kondrashin  
 
 
Krebbers / Concertgebouw / Haitink  
5/4 limage  
 
 
Kremer / Chamber Orch of Europe / Harnoncourt  
 
 
Milstein / Philharmonia / Leinsdorf  
5/2 limage  
 
 
Oistrakh / Orch National de la Radiodiffusion / Cluyten  
 
 
Perlman / Philharmonia / Giulini  
 
 
Repin / VPO / Muti  
 
 
Rosand / Monte Carlo Phil Orch / Inouye  
 
 
Schneiderhan / Jochum / Berliner  
3/4 BenYC  
 
 
Shumsky / Davis/ Philharmonia  
 
 
Szeryng / Concertgebouw / Haitink  
5/5 limage  
 
 
Ferras / Berliner / Karajan  
 
 
 
N.B.  
Ratings are from 1, the lowest to 5 the highest. The 1st number is for performance and the 2nd denotes recording quality.  
The list may go on and on as more people join in, and people can copy and then paste their votes on the appropriate recording, the same way as we do with yumcha registration. If anyone wants to add further versions, he can always add them down the end of the list.  
 
limage
10-01-03
11:51:09
回覆 (337): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
HAPPY NEW YEAR !  
 
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limage
10-01-01
00:01:29
回覆 (336): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
3. Francescatti / Columbia Sym Orch / Walter  
 
4.5 / 5  
 
 
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15. Schneiderhan / Jochum / Berliner  
 
3 / 4  
 
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5. Heifetz / Boston Sym / Munch  
 
5 / 4.5  
 
BenYC
09-12-31
11:41:53
回覆 (335): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Juilliard School的一門三傺  
網誌分類:Beethoven | 網誌日期:2009-12-30 10:18  
假期較多朋友聚會,但也不忘比較一下各Beethoven Violin Concerto版本。連太太也不禁好奇,問我為何晚晚都聽同一隻碟,當我告訴她演奏者不同的時候她卻回應:「就算有分別你怎會聽得出!」令人為之氣結。事實沒有仔細聆聽的話,每個版本都大同小異,但就是這些細微的分別使整體效果有明顯分別。  
 
聽過Perlman版本之後對同是Juiliard School 的Zukerman/Barenboim 的版本十分有興趣,技巧上Zukerman 沒有Perlman 那樣乾淨,音階也有不均的情况,比起Perlman 實在差了一點,但Zukerman 版本感情洋溢,音色溫暖,比Perlman 更人性,更令人感動。速度上大家差不多都是偏慢,較為着重點出音樂的歌唱性。兩個版本比較,風格接近,我更愛Zukerman/Barenboim 版本。  
 
音樂: 3.5  
 
音響: 4  
 

 
 
 
 
至於另一Juilliad School 的門生鄭京和,也曾和Kondrashin 合作錄此曲,我覺得較失望,鄭京和版本令人難以投入,技巧也不算乾淨,音階也像漫無目的。整體不甚令人滿意。Youtube 上找到的版本反而較佳。  
 
音樂: 2  
 
音響:4  
 

 

 
 
 
 
 
CKM
09-12-30
12:20:42
回覆 (334): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
CKM,  
 
Have listened Murray Pheria's Goldberg on Youtube. It is a very sensitive playing with lots of varieties in the tone, though not as much as Glenn Gould.  
 
 
tenfingers
09-12-24
18:59:14
回覆 (334): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Okay, shall we start the ball rolling? It's good time during Christmas when audiophiles are usually withering at home!  
 
 
 
BEETHOVEN VIOLIN CONCERTO, op. 61  
 
 
1. Chung / Vienna Phil / Kondrashin  
3/5 limage  
 
 
2. Chung / Concertgebouw / Tennstedt  
 
 
3. Francescatti / Columbia Sym Orch / Walter  
 
 
4. Grumiaux / Concertgebouw / Colin Davis  
4/5 limage  
 
 
5. Heifetz / Boston Sym / Munch  
5/4 limage  
 
 
6. Hirshhorn / Orchestre National de Belgique / Zollman  
 
 
7. Kogan / Moscow Phil Sym Orch / Kondrashin  
 
 
8. Krebbers / Concertgebouw / Haitink  
5/4 limage  
 
 
9. Kremer / Chamber Orch of Europe / Harnoncourt  
 
 
10. Milstein / Philharmonia / Leinsdorf  
5/2 limage  
 
 
11. Oistrakh / Orch National de la Radiodiffusion / Cluyten  
 
 
12. Perlman / Philharmonia / Giulini  
 
 
13. Repin / VPO / Muti  
 
 
14. Rosand / Monte Carlo Phil Orch / Inouye  
 
 
15. Schneiderhan / Jochum / Berliner  
 
 
16. Shumsky / Davis/ Philharmonia  
 
 
17. Szeryng / Concertgebouw / Haitink  
5/5 limage  
 
 
18. Ferras / Berliner / Karajan  
 
 
 
N.B.  
Ratings are from 1, the lowest to 5 the highest. The 1st number is for performance and the 2nd denotes recording quality.  
The list may go on and on as more people join in, and people can copy and then paste their votes on the appropriate recording, the same way as we do with yumcha registration. If anyone wants to add further versions, he can always add them down the end of the list.  
 
limage
09-12-24
14:31:39
回覆 (333): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
CKM,  
 
I haven't listen to a recent Murray Perahia, so no comment on his playing.  
 
Angela Hewitt? I hope her interpretation will be more mature in 10 years time.  
 
Playing Classical music is like 煲老火湯,慢慢煲才出味。^__^
tenfingers
09-12-24
13:58:16