古典音樂版本比拼擂台 |
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回覆 (296): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
Like limage, I.too, dislike those mono historical recordings  
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Since the two most respectable "audiophiles" insist that stereo recording is a prerequisite, as a most humble and submissive sycophant, I therefore have to withdraw all those lousy , unlistenable mono historic recordings from the list in order to comply; despite how big a name the soloist has or how musical the performance is. The list then becomes :  
 
Beethoven Violin Concerto, op. 61  
 
Francescatti / Walter  
Oistrakh / Clutyen  
Grumiaux / Concertgebouw / Colin Davis  
Kyung-Wha Chung / Vienna Phil / Kondrashin  
Kyung-Wha Chung / Royal Concertgebouw / Tennstedt  
Philippe Hirshhorn / Orchestre National de Belgique / Zollman  
Leonid Kogan / Moscow Phil Sym Orch / Kondrashin  
Herman Krebbers / Concertgebouw / Haitink  
Gidon Kremer / Cahmber Orch of Europe / Harnoncourt  
Aaron Rosand / Monte Carlo Phil Orch / Inouye  
Vadim Repin / VPO / Muti  
Szeryng / Concertgebouw / Haitink  
Milstein / Philharmonia / Erich Leinsdorf  
Heifetz / Boston Sym / Munch  
Schneiderhan / Jochum / Berliner  
Shumsky / Davis/ Philharmonia  
 
 
 
 
cpsjj
09-12-18
20:42:26
回覆 (295): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Still on Beethoven violin concerto. Like limage, I.too, dislike those mono historical recordings.  
My third choice is Kogan/Kondrashin. Though the sound is so so, it is still a stereo recording. I always enjoy Kogan and his Beethoven is no exception. His sure, assertive style suits this concerto very well and his technique and intonation is amongst the best. Some may find him coarse and lacking depth, I don't.  
kh33
09-12-18
19:43:42
回覆 (295): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
 
Gingers,  
 
Here's your Neveu. It's not on the list but you can come and listen, played either on the gold tag 3/5A, Chartwell, Spendor, LS5/9 or the ultimate reference (BBC only) LS5/8.  
 
 
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cpsjj
09-12-18
13:04:06
回覆 (294): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Hi CP,  
 
Thanks for the info on Menuhin/Furtwangler cd. I will go check it out.
BenYC
09-12-18
12:02:56
回覆 (295): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
I am curious to know what the best Beethoven from Szeryng is  
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A lot of people missed this best Szeryng reading but how can you, as a die-hard Szeryng aficionado. This violin concerto is embedded in a 2 CD set by Hans Zender with the Saarbrucker Radio Symphony Orchestra playing Beethoven's Sym. no.1 & 6 and the violin concerto. I'll dig it out for you form my Beethoven symphonies archive. :-)  
 
 
 
cpsjj
09-12-18
11:23:09
回覆 (295): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
I have just submit a long article why it don't show up?
CKM
09-12-18
10:47:06
回覆 (294): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
unfortunately it is in mono so it would not be accepted by limage  
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For me, historical recordings are well out of consideration, and yes, mono recordings too for that matter, or else I won't be an audiophile. For the music, I surely can enjoy it even through a car radio, but when it comes to selecting the finest recording, I'll be hard put to accept anything less than the very best in every respect.  
 
BTW cp, I am curious to know what the best Beethoven from Szeryng is. I do have a couple more from Szeryng, yet they are readily dismissed from my nomination either because of less than perfect recording, or because the performance is no match for his 1973 appearance with Haitink when his virtuosity, both mentally and physically, culminated.  
 
limage
09-12-18
10:29:42
回覆 (293): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
Ben,  
 
The Testament one was recorded in Lucerne in 1947 when Menuhin was still in his prime and worked with Furtwangler for the first time after the war with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra. The EMI one was a studio recording made in London in 1953 with the Philharmonia Orchestra when Menuhin's facility had noticeably deteriorated. But sonically the EMI ART remaster might have an edge.  
 
 
 
cpsjj
09-12-17
23:38:59
回覆 (293): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Hi BenYC,  
 
I also like Ida Haendel's 'baroque transcription CD' you've mentioned somewhere....  
Vitali's Chaconne in G minor, in particular....
erictang
09-12-17
23:34:22
回覆 (292): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Which Menuhin/Furtwangler version does BenYC prefer?  
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Aren't they the same version? Testament got it from EMI? If different, pls let me know and I will get the missing one. (I don't hv testament.)
BenYC
09-12-17
23:07:50
回覆 (291): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Hi CP,  
 
Thank you for reposting the list..... :-)  
In fact, I have never met that 高人 and I don't have any of the shortlisted recording.....  
 
 
The Kyung-wha Chung with Klaus Tennstedt CD you've posted is my favored CD,  
I like Chung's rendition of Bruch, a work I like, much more than Beethoven's.  
Her earlier recording with Previn under Decca label is also my preference.
erictang
09-12-17
22:30:04
回覆 (290): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
 
Allow me to repost erictang's 高人 list here again just as a reference :  
(note : I do not have all of them)  
 
1. Fritz Kreisler (HMV / Strings) London Philh Orch / John Barbirolli / June 1936 in London / Cadenze di Kreisler  
2. Georg Kulenkampff (Teldec / Dutton) Berline Philh / Hans Schmidt-isserstedt / 25 June 1936 in Berlin / Cadenze di Kreisler  
3. David Oistrakh (Col./EMI) Stockholm Festival Orch / Sixten Ehrling / 1954 in Stockholm / Cadenze di Kreisler  
4. David Oistrakh (Melodiya / Brilliant Classics) USSR State Sym Orch / Gennady Rozhdestvensky / Live 25 Dec 1962 in Moscow / Cadenze di Kreisler  
5. David Oistrakh (Weitbuck) Staatskapelle Berlin / Franz Konwitschny / Live 14 Oct 1960 at Staatsoper Berlin / Cadenze di Kreisler  
6. Henryk Szeryng ( Vai DVD) Orch Symphonique de Radio Canada / Jorge Mester / DVD Live 25 Dec 1988 / Cadenze di Joachim  
7. Henryk Szeryng ( BBC / Testament) Philharmonia Orch / Otto Klemperer / Live 16 Nov 1959 at Royal Festival Hall, London / Cadenze di Joachim  
8. Henryk Szeryng (Pathé/Arlecchino) Paris Conservatoire Orch / Jacques Thibaud / 1950 in Paris / Cadenze di Joachim  
9. Zino Francescatti (Albersen Music Publishers, Den Haag DVD) Netherlands Radio Philh Orch / Jean Fournet / DVD Live 13 May 1973 in Turfschip, Breda / Cadenze di Kreisler  
10. Zino Francescatti (Columbia / Biddulph ) Philadelphia Orch / Eugene Ormandy / 1950 in Philadelphia / Cadenze di Kreisler  
11. Zino Francescatti (Archipel) New York Philh Orch / Dimitri Mitropoulos / Live 26 Oct 1952 in New York / Cadenze di Kreisler  
12. Zino Francescatti (Andante) Concertgebouw Orch / Eduard Van Beinum / Live 1958 in Amsterdam / Cadenze di Kreisler  
13. Wolfgang Schneiderhan (BBC Legands) London Sym Orch / Istvan Kertesz / Live 13 March 1964 at Royal Festival Hall, London / Cadenze di Beethoven- Schneiderhan  
14. Wolfgang Schneiderhan (DGG) Berlin Philh / Wilhelm Furtwangler / Live 1953 in Berlin / Cadenze di Joachim  
15. Camilla Wicks (Music & Arts) New York Philh Orch / Bruno Walter / Live 15 Feb 1953 in New York / Cadenze di Kreisler  
16. Berl Senofsky (Colubal d’amour) Boston Sym Orch / Pierre Monteux / Live 9 Aug 1958 at Tanglewood / Cadenze di Kreisler , Fritz Kreisler was an honored guest at the concert  
17. Franco Gulli (Musidisc) Colonne Concerts Orch / 1978 in Paris / Cadenze di Kreisler  
18. Arthur Grumiaux (Philips) New Philharmonia Orch / Alceo Galliera / 1966 in London / Cadenze di Kreisler  
19. Alfredo Campoli (Decca / Beulah) London Sym Orch / Josef Krips / 1952 in London / Cadenze di Kreisler  
20. Leonid Kogan (Melodiya / Arlecchino) Moscow Philp Orch / Kirill Kondrashin / Live 1962 in Moscow / Cadenze di Joachim  
21. Philippe Hirshhorn (Cypres) Orch National de Belgique / Ronald Zollman / Live 30 Jan 1990 in Bruxelles / Cadenze di Kreisler  
 
 
cpsjj
09-12-17
21:22:07
回覆 (289): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
And Kyung-wha Chung with Klaus Tennstedt is better than Kondrashin, both musically and sonically.  
 
 
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cpsjj
09-12-17
21:06:25
回覆 (288): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
 
Szeryng with Haitink is definitely not the best amongst his few versions. But soundwise, it's quite ok.  
 
 
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cpsjj
09-12-17
20:59:49
回覆 (287): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
Which Menuhin/Furtwangler version does BenYC prefer?  
 
 
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cpsjj
09-12-17
20:54:20
回覆 (286): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
 
In my opinion, Milstein with Steinberg is better than with Leinsdorf, unfortunately it is in mono so it would not be accepted by limage.  
 
 
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cpsjj
09-12-17
20:52:27
回覆 (285): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
CKM's proposed Kremer version. Must be the best that came out in the last decade.  
 
 
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cpsjj
09-12-17
20:38:44
回覆 (284): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
 
The Aaron Rosand reading. One of the very best in my opinion.  
 
 
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cpsjj
09-12-17
20:37:04
回覆 (283): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
Do you have Ginette Neveu's version??  
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Of course la. Other than that M&A version, I have this Hanssler version too. Too bad it's not on the list. :-)  
 
 
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cpsjj
09-12-17
20:34:12
回覆 (282): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Hi Brothers  
 
Do you have Ginette Neveu's version??  
 
http://www.wangchao.net.cn/bt/detail_52972.html
Gingers
09-12-17
20:15:14
回覆 (284): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
The Four Seasons by Vivaldi  
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Gentlemen,  
 
Sorry to interrupt your game again. Limage, when I saw your LPs of Four Seasons, I immediately recall the memory of studying the structure of this piece in the old days.  
 
'Winter' is my favorite of this work. The melody depicting the people sitting by the fireside and watching the heavy snow from the window (played by the pizzicato strings)  
It creates a lovely picture and have a lot of 人情味 inside the music。Speaking of 人情味,you and kris are the ones who have a lot to share.  
 
Vivaldi Winter  
tenfingers
09-12-17
19:41:05
回覆 (284): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
...........miss out violinist from 1990 - 2009  
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CKM,  
 
Hirshhorn's reading was recorded in 1990.  
 
I do agree with you that for the more modern performances Kremer offers a very refreshing reading. In that respect, I will also nominate the version by Aaron Rosand/Inouye/Monte Carlo Phil. Orch. to be included.  
 
 
cpsjj
09-12-17
19:40:16
回覆 (283): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
I fully appreciate your effort in making a comprehensive list, but do you found that you list miss out violinist from 1990 - 2009.  
 
I would suugest at least two should be added to the list:  
 
Kremer/ Harnoncourt  
Repin/Muti
CKM
09-12-17
17:52:04
回覆 (282): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Well, if this introduction is not written by CP the soberly insane, it must be a carefully worked out translation by gingers.  
 
>o<  
 
limage
09-12-17
15:51:45
回覆 (281): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
I have to append the list with this concerto by Philippe Hirshhorn, which was previously recommended in erictang's list from a 高人. This is a live recording at Palais des Beaux-Arts in January 1990. As a live recording, the recording quality is immaculate, the performance impeccable.  
 
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There is a strange write-up of Philippe Hirshhorn in the CD booklet which after reading through I still do not have a clue what the author wants to say. I have a feeling it was written by me ! :-) Can anyone tell me what it says.  
 
"Philippe Hirshhorn invented music and made it die at his command. Through this birth, he too was born, for himself and for others, through this death, he was already dying. He discovered an original life form and played his violin like a birdcall, taming death. Philippe Hirshhorn lived between these two obscure points where the spoken word breaks away from material reality.  
 
He took extreme risks in the creation of his art which involved undoing himself in order to create other living elements. He accepted this risk; music was what he owed to time. He did not complain about living closer to death than mortals normally do.  
 
The sovereignty of sound which was his driving force exceeded his intentions, as reflected by the reactions of the audience at each concert, but Philippe Hirshhorn still rejected its hum, fearing that it would be seen as a personal triumph.  
 
His excellence was always much more important to him than the recognition of this excellence. What he created was knowledge itself – a dazzling revelation pulling us away from reality by the ear and remaining forever with us in the enriched echo of our memories.  
 
If he ever believed himself to be on the brink of reaching his goal, he soon discovered that there was nothing which could ever take its place. He was never able to belie the theatre of the moment. And in his presence, we thought that listening was the only form of submission that has beauty.  
 
Often, Philippe Hirshhorn came close to the abyss, at the risk of losing his balance in front of the gaping vision which was vertiginously hollowing out before him, defending access to it. He sat imposingly at the crest of its fragility, politely giving the impression that it was comfortable.  
 
He took the road to the brink of fear, seeking through this daring game, the unknown form of love. Philippe Hirshhorn played in an expansive presence which was the condition of his self-effacement. He created peaks in the purity of those who lavish praise."  
 
 
 
cpsjj
09-12-17
15:40:24
回覆 (281): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Beethoven Violin Concerto, op. 61  
 
Now we have 14 contestants to start rolling, anymore to add or otherwise omit?  
 
 
Francescatti / Walter  
Oistrakh / Clutyen  
Grumiaux / Concertgebouw / Colin Davis  
Kyung-Wha Chung / Vienna Phil / Kondrashin  
Herman Krebbers / Concertgebouw / Haitink  
Szeryng / Concertgebouw / Haitink  
Milstein / Philharmonia / Erich Leinsdorf  
Heifetz / Boston Sym / Munch  
Huberman / Szell / Vienna Phil  
Menuhin / Furtwangler / Berliner  
Schneiderhan / Jochum / Berliner  
Shumsky / Davis/ Philharmonia  
Szigeti / Walter / British Sym. Orch.  
Wicks / Walter / Philharmonic-Sym.  
 
limage
09-12-17
15:39:12
回覆 (280): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
Morning Limage,  
 
You have got a few LP which I found very interesting, include the one by Suk and Szeryng.
CKM
09-12-17
11:37:46
回覆 (279): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Morning CKM,  
 
I have only 9 copies, 7 LP and 2 CD:  
 
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and now short-listed to 6:-  
 
Grumiaux / Concertgebouw / Colin Davis  
Kyung-Wha Chung / Vienna Phil / Kondrashin  
Herman Krebbers / Concertgebouw / Haitink  
Szeryng / Concertgebouw / Haitink  
Milstein / Philharmonia / Erich Leinsdorf  
Heifetz / Boston Sym / Munch  
 
limage
09-12-17
11:20:42
回覆 (278): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
For Beethoven concerto, I vote for the following versions -  
 
Menuhin/Furtwangler  
Francescatti/Walter  
 
BenYC
09-12-17
09:18:03
回覆 (277): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
I am doing my homework now. Nine versions total, guess I can only run through the 1st movement.  
 
limage
09-12-16
20:33:48
回覆 (276): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Being a hi-fi 'yau' sound is of paramount importance. For Beethoven violin concerto therefore my first pick is:  
Milstein/Leinsdorf---this used to my my test record for fine tuning my system. Of course Milstein reading is no fluke either. There is a naturalness and ease of execution that made listening to his playing so relaxing.  
Next is Oistrakh/Clutyen, Though not considered to have the best and cleanest technique amongst the giants,Oistrakh is not called King David for nothing. The sweetness of his tone and the warmth of his playing made his reading so humane.
kh33
09-12-16
20:20:03
回覆 (276): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
Oh yes doc, I should have the Philips I Musici. Must have misplaced it somewhere.  
 
limage
09-12-16
19:33:15
回覆 (275): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
' After spending a little more than 3 hours running through each of them, here is my view '  
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limage,  
3 hrs running the 4 seasons? Not bored? Your effort and dedication is much appreciated. I haven't listened to 4 seasons for ages and almost forgotten them.  
I remembered I like the Marriner and ASM most and that version by I Musici-Philip label- is used by audiophiles as demonstration record.
kh33
09-12-16
19:15:53
回覆 (274): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
The gala strad concert  
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Dear Limage,  
 
I loie your gala strad concert LP very much. Would you like to exchange for something if you had a spare original copy?
dkyyu
09-12-16
14:39:55
回覆 (273): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
Good afternoon cpsjjjjjj (you know what other 'j's meant for),  
 
 
I have never seen anyone who is more obsessed with CD than you. You are the best.  
 
 
tenfingers
09-12-16
14:29:27
回覆 (272): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
And Camilla Wicks  
 
 
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cpsjj
09-12-16
13:33:43
回覆 (271): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
My nominations :  
 
1. Huberman/Szell/Vienna Phil. Orch.  
2. Menuhin/Furtwangler/Berliner  
3. Schneiderhan/Jochum/Berliner  
4. Shumsky/Davis/Philharmonia Orch.  
5. Szigeti/Walter/British Sym. Orch.  
6. Wicks/Walter/Philharmonic-Sym. Orch  
 
 
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cpsjj
09-12-16
13:32:08
回覆 (270): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
So we don't need a vote anymore, let us start with Beethoven Violin Concerto.  
 
let count how many versions I have got:  
 
Heifetz/Toscanini (1941)  
Menuhin/Furtwangler  
Heifetz/Munch  
Oistrakh/Clutyen  
Milstein/Leinstorf  
Kogan/Silvestri  
Kogan ( mono )  
Schneiderhan/Jochum  
Grumiaux/Davis  
Francescatti/Walter  
Chung/Kondrashin  
Perlman/Giulini  
Shumsky/Davis  
Kremer/Harnoncourt  
Hahn/Zinman  
Molluva/Gardiner  
Repin/Muti
CKM
09-12-16
13:10:37
回覆 (269): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
 
..................CP may have 150 versions of Beethoven violin concerto  
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CKM,  
 
You must have been away doing a doctoral in bragging. I understudied limage for over 2 years and not quite reached his level yet. I bet limage may only boast 100 versions for teasing, 150 is far too many to be credible. But 50 is a very close estimate. :-)  
 
 
 
cpsjj
09-12-16
12:30:04
回覆 (268): 古典音樂版本比拼擂台
 
 
Are you asking for trouble ?  
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CP, I think you are the ONE to ask for trouble :-)  
MAKE it simple and PICK up your favourite, the most 10 versions :-)  
 
Gingers
09-12-16
12:22:57