Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕 |
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回覆 (58): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
 
 
 
 
 
Morning gents,  
 
limage, great post! And what a photo of ML's room!! A very sweet man with a healthy dose of humor. ML's 3 little monkeys .....  
 
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kris
10-12-10
08:00:16
回覆 (57): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
Winston's idea of "room within a room" has been duplicated and modified by ML, a very good friend of mine in HK. This is undoubtedly a mega buck investment, but this is also the wisest approach to audio since the room itself should rightly be the prime concern over any audio system. My room treatment may be vastly different from theirs, but the emphasis on the room remains paramount.  
 
ML 2010  
 
limage
10-12-09
16:38:33
回覆 (56): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
There must be many roads heading for Audio Euphoria and Winston happens to be on a different one, I presume.  
 
limage
10-12-09
16:37:05
回覆 (55): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
very nice deco.  
wonder why he put the speakers so close to the front wall since he has 27 feet to play with?
drwkng
10-12-09
16:16:44
回覆 (54): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
Winston Ma was my colleague as well as my mentor who first brought me into the doorsteps of audio lunacy many years ago. He is now in Seattle, still actively engaged in recording and probably anything relating to audio gadgets. The following is an extract I read from www.stereopal.com :-  
 
 
Winston’s listening room is, by far, the most dedicated audio room there is, a combination of the most thoughtful design, careful acoustically measured, and most advanced technology; it was designed and constructed by Winston over the course of 18 months with the help of many elite industry designers and professional engineers.  
 
First of all, the foundation of the room was designed to be built on an absolute solid ground. It was constructed in the follow ways:  
 
1. 4’ concrete wall to form the basin of the foundation. Inner sides of the wall are covered with a special wood-based soft board forming an effective isolation from outside vibration and resonance.  
 
2. The ground of the foundation was machine compressed, then filled with 1st layer of rough gravels, 2nd layer of fine gravel, third layer of rough sand, and fourth layer of fine sand, all machine-compressed.  
 
3. Then cover with special 2” foam which can stand tones of weight and can last for 25 years.  
 
4. Finally, on top of the foam is 6” of reinforced concrete block to achieve solid, no ringing but live floor for clean and solid bass performance.  
 
The studs used were 8”x4” reinforced high density wood-chip frame with special insulation within, instead of the standard 4”x4”. The room was built on a concept of “room-within-a-room” with 3 layers of wall; the exterior wall was built affixed to the solid concrete wall of the foundation, where the inner wall of the listening room was built on the floating slab, so that the vibration from outside room does not transmitted to the inner room. The easiest way to imagine, it is a room on a vibration isolation platform.  
 
Winston Ma's studio  
 
The room is measured approximately 17’ (W) x 27.506’ (L). The ceiling is on an ascending angle at 10 degree from 10.51’ (front H) to 16.51’ (rear H); what you get is a perfect size room with a golden ratio (1 : 1.6 : 2.5). On the power side, there are 4 units of isolation transformers of 30KW @ 117V for front end equipment, two of which are for digital gear. Two separate isolation transformers of 45KW @ 117V isolation transformers for sub-woofer amplifiers and two 45KW @ 240V isolation transformer for four high/mid mono amplifiers.  
 
The room environment is computer controlled at 22 ~ 24 Celsius temperature and at 39 degree humidity without any noise of the fan nor the air flow. When the door is sealed, the room is drawn into its pitch black quietness. The interior wall colors differ by just a nick of degrees to give you a good sense of 3-D space, yet its soft color tone allows you to forget about its boundary quickly. Winston refers this as the wonderful design of psycho-acoustic engineering. There are a number of acoustic treatments all around the room, positioned by specified calculation then fine tuned by ear.  
 
 
limage
10-12-09
15:26:46
回覆 (53): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
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kakakakaka  
limage
10-09-26
15:26:44
回覆 (52): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
 
 
Oh yes, the curve helps when something is terribly wrong.  
 
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Sure does!
kris
10-09-26
11:39:44
回覆 (51): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
 
Oh yes, the curve helps when something is terribly wrong.  
 
I used to be a slave in plotting graphs years ago. No less than 400 curves were taken as I was hopelessly obsessed with eliminating every peak and valley along the way. I tried equalizers, passive and active cross-over maneuvers, various amps, cables, furniture swaps etc only to find my efforts were all remiss. They were no substitute for proper speaker placement. Curves don’t help much to give me good music either.  
 
These two curves were taken in the early 80’s on my previous listening room. They represent what to expect from two very different speaker placements. Obviously the lower curve is better because of the range and scope of disparities.  
 
Frequency sweep, HLY  
 
Similar things happened with my present room although I no longer put my trust in eyes in stead of ears. Nothing could help to put things in order until I had the speaker and the stereo seat properly reversed.  
 
 
limage
10-09-26
11:24:56
回覆 (50): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
go to bed. Patrick. when you are back from business trip. let me do some measurement for you.
drwkng
10-09-26
11:13:01
回覆 (49): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
Good morning Ivan  
 
Just can't get to sleep when I saw this data. Wow moving around the speakers to me is like throwing darts. I thought this frequency is going to give me some hints.  
Not much luck...  
 
My question is if my system ( with current speakers position now ) is missing mid bass or certain range, wouldn't the curve indicate something? ( Just to put the logic around )  
 
what a puzzle
abc2009
10-09-26
09:48:17
回覆 (48): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
Morning Patrick, the early bird!  
 
If frequency curve is anything to go by, your room has one serious problem at 20-25 Hz which luckily falls outside the range of your speaker as well as your hearing. It shouldn’t matter much.  
 
Yet frequency curve tells you nothing about the quality you are getting. It is but one of the tools to provide reference for initial set up. It is by no means the solution. Ironically speaking, a ruler flat frequency response room often turns out to be the last thing you want for music appreciation.  
 
My subjective view remains the same: move your speakers around to get the best compromise, or better still to modify the dimension of your sitting room to get as much symmetry as possible. Miracles do happen sometimes, but more often than not, they don’t.  
 
limage
10-09-26
09:20:46
回覆 (47): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
Ivan  
 
Is that saying my room is too bad at all?  
I thought my room measurement should have serious valley in some mid bass, what could my issue then?  
 
 
abc2009
10-09-26
06:17:58
回覆 (46): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
The frequency sweep helps you to locate serious peaks and valleys and in your case, the curve is pretty even with basically narrow bands at +/- 10db across the usable range. Not bad at all.  
 
limage
10-09-26
00:38:52
回覆 (45): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
from 10 - 500Hz
abc2009
10-09-26
00:16:16
回覆 (44): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
Guys  
 
What do you think of this frequency sweep measurement?
abc2009
10-09-26
00:14:08
回覆 (43): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
Good morning Jason,  
 
Welcome to share your system here1  
 
limage
10-06-16
09:24:29
回覆 (42): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
新會員報到.
JasonHiFi
10-06-16
09:06:18
回覆 (43): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
GAS, a new member of this forum, is a gentleman of suave manners and placid nature. His HiFi room occupies a separate wing away from his main house, unquestionably the dream of every audiophile — not to disturb nor to be disturbed in whichever way. It has even got its own parlour, toilet and a self contained work station where he fixes his gear.  
 
I cannot wait to post the pictures here, yes just to make you feel miserable.  
 
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死未!  
 
 
limage
10-06-06
11:24:57
回覆 (42): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
 
limage from yahoo search............
kris
10-03-25
09:46:27
回覆 (41): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
 
Oh, a strange thing happened this morning while I was testing the web. For the sake of self amusement, I typed in " limage'" in search of images through yahoo and these 2 photos turned up!  
kris
10-03-25
09:45:09
回覆 (40): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
 
 
 
 
 
limage, while going through our archives, came across another piece of your beautifully written journal on room size. Always fun to read your stuff! BTW, If there's any change on room dimensions, please keep us posted!  
 
 
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On room size - by limage  
 
 
Since audiophiles in HK have to suffer for want of space in general, many of us have an urge from the heart to get as big as possible a room when chances arrive. Quite contrary to what most people tend to imagine, too big a room is in fact much more difficult to achieve good sound, much less so to fulfill a necessarily higher expectation.  
 
First and foremost, there is the problem of sound level. To fill up the enormous volume with realistic sound pressure, one has little choice but to go for the big speakers and big speakers, by their very nature, are often capable of bass extension to the sub-sonics with unabated vigour. The lower the frequency goes, the more difficult it will be to control the room resonances. I had the experience of wrestling with a 30 Hz peak of +18 db and I can assure you that nothing could be done to have it totally eradicated.  
 
To achieve realistic sound level, one needs to go for high power amps as well. Top quality high power amps are ridiculously expensive these days. The other way round the corner is to use high efficiency speakers with low power ultra quality amps. But very good loud sounding speakers are even more scarce, if not more expensive. Of course none of these poses a problem if money is not an issue. Even so, choices become deplorably limited.  
 
So some of us decide to build their own speaker system. A popular move is to make use of electronic crossover to mate different speakers together with a view to achieve sonic busters in a space where single speaker system simply falls flat. This approach tend to be self-indulgent and I have met quite a few of these freaks who never cease to add still more drivers on top of an already over-complicated network. At the end of the day, you’ll find these friends obsess themselves with particular sound effects which, when called upon to reproduce music, are total disasters. To be honest, I do think that whoever goes beyond 3-way in electronic cross-over system is either out of his mind or outright dumb. Mating different speakers / drivers is a very strenuous job and very demanding of your hearing acuity, and unless you are prepared to devote your entire self 4 hours a day to the least, chances of success is extremely remote.  
 
The bigger the room, the wider apart the speakers have to be and further away the stereo seat has to be placed. High frequencies tend to roll off sharply as distance increases. Much of the finesse, nuances and immediacy can be lost, unless of course you play it real loud, which in turn brings your neighbour to your doorsteps every evening. One likely way is to scale down the speaker-seat triangle. But by so doing, it would be akin to playing music in the middle of a football field. When definition is nowhere forthcoming, they end up moving this triangle to one side of the room, again resulting in a sound that may be anything but right. Then you begin to question yourself why the hell you need such a big room at all.  
 
This brings us to the question of optimum size. Golden rules have it that for big rooms, the dimensions look something like this:  
 
10 feet tall X 16 feet wide X 25 feet long  
 
and small rooms  
 
10 feet X 12.5 feet X 16 feet  
 
I cannot remember how these figures have been derived. Nevertheless the principle behind is simple: no dimension should be simple multiples of any other. The purpose is expressly to avoid or reduce serious resonances from haunting the sonic character of the room.  
 
I had the experience of dealing with a room 10 X 16 X 27 which was remarkably conducive to big sound, with definition that was simply awesome. My present room is roughly 8 X 13 X 21 and I find it equally satisfactory from imaging to soundstage, or finesse to dynamic slam; whereas in my former room, a whopping 11 X 21 X 57, it was near impossible to persuade speakers just to sing.  
 
I do not have all the experiences I like to have in handling big rooms but with sufficient sweat and tears I have gone through, my advice, if you do lend me your ears, is to go no further than 18 X 33 which I think should have little trouble accommodating even the biggest mammoth of speakers the world can offer.
kris
10-03-25
09:36:19
回覆 (39): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
Best of (all ?) worlds ?
evp1312
10-03-22
11:21:50
回覆 (38): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
I came across this by accident - now what would you print on your back wall of your den to create that image of being some place else and enjoying the bliss of your system ?
http://www.style-your-garage.com/
daiwok
10-03-05
10:48:41
回覆 (37): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
The room belongs to Michael Wiedemann the designer of the TW Acustic Raven 10.5 tonearm - I would love to have those horns here in HK !! possible ? of course ^__*
daiwok
10-01-24
19:31:51
回覆 (36): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
Sure, this room is tastefully finished and it shows once again that interior decoration and HiFi are not mutually exclusive necessarily. All we need is a bit of careful planning along with touches of good taste.  
 
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limage
10-01-24
19:25:23
回覆 (35): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
((((((((((2010)))))))新年快樂!
funny
10-01-01
00:28:53
回覆 (34): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
HAPPY NEW YEAR !  
 
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limage
10-01-01
00:00:53
回覆 (33): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
These are mine cutting off at 204Hz
daiwok
09-12-31
16:06:38
回覆 (32): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
just for you icefox, mine are 204 Hz, 95cm version is 160Hz. Now we can commission for 1.75m and 120Hz ^_^
http://www.azurahorn.com/azurahorn_horns.html
daiwok
09-12-31
16:03:27
回覆 (31): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
Where is the picture with the 1.75M baffle?
icefox
09-12-31
13:29:58
回覆 (30): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
and this one for the Altec boys - yep all hand made :-)
daiwok
09-12-31
12:45:24
回覆 (29): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
why hold back on - build a basement bass horn !
daiwok
09-12-31
12:44:29
回覆 (28): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
So in a concert hall with a stage is for the visual performance but bad for sound?  
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Since every concert hall has a platform, it must be there for a purpose, either to help propagating the sound or for visibility convenience, or both may be. Honestly I don't know. All I know is that this platform has to be extremely sturdy and resonance free to give good sound.  
 
But then, even if I were a most imaginative speaker designer, I wouldn't have gone this extreme to design speakers that must be placed on a stage to give their best.  
 
 
limage
09-12-31
12:25:42
回覆 (28): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
Oh I see. Thanks Lee sir
ken1967
09-12-31
12:22:59
回覆 (27): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
 
the whole thing is actually a big cabinet for the bass unit  
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It's a bass horn.  
 
 
 
cpsjj
09-12-31
11:51:07
回覆 (26): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
Why stupid, because a stage platform at home, however big, is in no way even a lame approximation of the real concert hall. Most important of all, ambience is already embedded in the recording. Anything on top can only be wrong.  
 
 
limage
09-12-31
11:32:05
回覆 (25): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
So in a concert hall with a stage is for the visual performance but bad for sound?  
 
I saw magazine some Jap have stage in their homes as well.  
 
ken1967
09-12-31
11:21:44
回覆 (24): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
Instead of just a platform, I think the whole thing is actually a big cabinet for the bass unit!  
 
thekong
09-12-31
11:06:09
回覆 (23): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
Surprised to find that Milton Leung wasn't alone with this stupid idea of having a stage platform for the speakers!  
 
picture taken from JC thread  
 
limage
09-12-31
10:46:45
回覆 (22): Hi Fi Rooms to explore 〔發燒房面面觀〕
 
Stephen’s remarkable HiFi room, 90 percent made of wood and self fabricated in no less than 6 months.  
funny5699  
funny5699  
limage
09-12-13
09:35:06
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